In team sport, individual achievement pales in comparison to winning the title. The same goes for the Toronto-based firm of Daoust Vukovich Baker-Sigal Banka, where the sum of numerous individual achievements combine to form a leading boutique practice specializing in commercial landlord and tenant law. Co-founded by Dennis Daoust and Natalie Vukovich in January 1995, with the other name partners Jeanne Banka and Francine Baker-Sigal joining in 1996, the firm has built a national client base and is now one of the most highly regarded leasing practices in the country. Daoust Vukovich acts for some of Canada’s largest commercial real estate developers and retailers, including Cadillac Fairview, Oxford Development Group, Gentra, Cineplex Odeon, Confederation Life Insurance and Tim Hortons. So, how is it that a boutique has travelled so far in so short a time?
Know Your Client
An interesting string ties the previous experiences of the Daoust Vukovich partnership together. In their past lives, three out of the four name partners had spent significant periods as in-house counsel to a variety of corporate organizations, most notably large commercial retailers and real estate developers. Vukovich had served as corporate counsel for First Choice Haircutters and Trilea Centres Inc., a shopping centre company. Daoust spent fourteen years as in-house counsel to a number of companies, including ten years with Cadillac Fairview, and Banka has nearly twenty years of experience in-house, most recently as Vice-President, Legal, with Cadillac Fairview.
The partners at Daoust Vukovich have capitalized on their unique background as corporate counsel, recognizing that through these positions they have developed a “sixth sense” for business. They intuitively know how large developers and retailers make decisions and understand the qualities that these businesses value. They also understand the role that lawyers play as part of a company. “We realized that lawyers aren’t nearly as important as they think they are. You have to be brief, efficient and understand what others are trying to do,” says Daoust. This simple strategy has worked. Clients have greeted Daoust Vukovich with open arms. As Daoust notes, “We were not aware that the industry was looking for an alternative like this when we set up. But they were, and they welcomed us.”
Today, the firm advises on a blend of business and law solutions, which means that clients often see the firm as playing an in-house role. As Daoust says, “We are a safety valve. If a client can’t keep up, we can help things continue. Or in-house counsel may want to free themselves up for something. We can do the job.” Banka adds, “There is not really anything that people could come to us with that we haven’t done something similar to in the past.” Sandra Hardy, VP of Cadillac Fairview and a firm client, says it was Daoust and Banka’s experience with Cadillac that prompted the company to go with the firm. Mauro Pambianchi, Senior Vice-President of Gentra Canada Inc., another Daoust Vukovich client, also valued the firm’s past experience. “We used to use Dennis Daoust before he started the firm. We have always liked dealing with him,” Pambianchi explains.
The firm has added to their in-house experience by recruiting from in-house departments. Before joining Daoust Vukovich in 1998, associate Ken Beallor was the top in-house lawyer with firm client Tim Hortons. Thus, when the company was short-staffed earlier this year, Beallor was brought in to look after some of their files. Alfred Lane, Executive Vice-President of Development and General Counsel at Hortons, says he mostly goes through Beallor because “he knows how we think”, but he initially went to the firm because of Vukovich’s “excellent leasing ability.” As he says, “The firm deals with the larger developers on a regular basis, so in those situations, they get to the end result much faster than we could.”
Provide a Fast, Complete Service
Dennis Daoust’s main focus is with larger landlords, whilst Banka and Vukovich principally concentrate on smaller leases. “They all have a huge amount of expertise in the area,” says Pambianchi at Gentra, “They have done tons of deals.” Baker-Sigal acts primarily for tenants, such as Cineplex Corporation. Karen Hacker, VP Legal at Cineplex, retains the firm for large commercial leasing for their cinemas, which range in size from 65,000 sq. feet up. “We work mostly with Francine. We use her because she is a superb commercial leasing lawyer,” she says.
To round out their practice, the firm realized early on that it needed a commercial litigation specialist. “We could do everything when things were going well, but we were not going to be very effective if we had no dispute resolution service when things turned sour,” says Vukovich. Daoust agrees: “Commercial leasing is very esoteric. It is crucial, especially in litigation, to understand the nuances.” Daoust Vukovich went scouting and Wolfgang Kaufmann, now a partner, surfaced as a natural choice. “With the mix of commercial litigation and commercial leasing, there are lots of clients that we previously had who are now giving us more and more litigation work,” notes Kaufmann. Jonathon Fleisher, of the high-tech and corporate commercial boutique Grasset Fleisher, has no hesitation in referring general litigation to Daoust Vukovich. “Wolfgang is a very good common sense litigator,” he says.
Although a firm of just seven lawyers, three clerks and one student, Daoust Vukovich is an extremely effective unit. “We are fungible,” says Daoust, “Most of our clients feel comfortable that any one of us can deal with a matter.” Pambianchi at Gentra sees their size as a plus, “They are very responsive in terms of their turn around time, and an extremely effective use of our resources.” Hardy at Cadillac Fairview agrees: “They are responsive and timely, and are able to throw a lot of people on to a matter when you need them.” Indeed, the firm’s size gives it a considerable commercial advantage. “They are able to deliver a result at a much better price than the larger firms,” notes Hortons’ Alfred Lane.
Network
It is clear from speaking to the partners that the retail leasing world is extremely close knit. It is, in short, a small jungle. “I could rattle off the top 500 retailers and we would know them and they would know us,” says Vukovich. Being part of such a tight community continues to bring new work to the firm. “One of the best ways to develop work is that an executive from one company will move to another company. When they move to the new company, we get the work,” says Daoust. It also gives rise to the strong relationships that keep the work coming through the door. “I love the relationships, and being part of the industry,” adds Baker-Sigal. “Look around you, and you see these huge developments. These are our clients. You get a sense of being connected, and being part of something which is very important.”
Having also fostered corroborative relationships with other law firms, Daoust Vukovich is often picked by these firms to be part of a team. “They feel safe about referring work to us or working directly with us,” says Banka. Grasset Fleisher refers leasing work to Daoust Vukovich on a regular basis. Fleisher mostly deals with Vukovich. “She is a great lawyer,” he says, “and when it comes to insolvency, there is no one better.” The two firms frequently bounce ideas off each other. “I am always very impressed with their expertise in that area,” says Fleisher.
Daoust Vukovich’s obsession with relationship building goes even further, with the firm’s emphasis on a high profile in training and education. Daoust, who taught the Masters of Law in commercial leasing at Osgoode Hall, explains, “We do two things in addition to our day-to-day business. We participate in events and we participate in education.” Each member of the firm is involved in teaching, speaking, and contributing to publications. For example, Baker-Sigal is a founding member of the Toronto Commercial Real Estate Women’s Association, of which Banka is also a member—an association with over 100 members which was formed to promote education and networking across all disciplines among senior commercial women. “Our relationships come from being plugged in. We maintain a profile at all the conferences,” adds Banka. Vukovich is on the executive group of the International Council of Shopping Centers, having attended the most recent conference in Las Vegas. “You go there, wave the flag, pick up on the hot trends,” she says. All members of the firm pay a great deal of attention to the most recent industry and market developments in the U.S. As Daoust says, “You gotta know the business and what’s around the corner.”
Embrace Change
Daoust Vukovich insists on keeping abreast of new developments. “We have a religious commitment to be at the forefront,” says Daoust. The partners, with the advent of developments such as e-commerce, are under no illusions about how easy it would be to get left behind. Instead, the firm has found itself playing a leading role in an interesting phenomenon currently taking place in commercial leasing. The fact that current real estate shares are not a true reflection of the value of clients’ assets has provided a catalyst to the owners to explore new sources of technology-related revenue. Ironically, this has led to companies becoming more aware of the huge value of their holdings. Far from being left behind, the firm’s clients have discovered that they are ideally suited to take advantage of new opportunities regarding use of their properties. This has led Daoust Vukovich into new areas such as the negotiation and drafting of telecommunications license agreements, advertising/billboard agreements, and elevator monitoring agreements.
Consequently, the firm is increasingly involved in areas which are not traditionally thought of as being the domain of a commercial leasing practice, and is frequently retained by companies to assist in realizing the full potential of their assets. “Bricks and mortar are no longer the prime source of value for our clients. Commercial leasing is our main focus, but we are involved in everything: management agreements, service agreements, telephone installations, lottery kiosks, media/advertising agreements.” Today, Daoust spends a lot of time working with “specialty revenue people”, who are employed by companies to look at new ways of generating revenue, independent of rent. “This is not a static field. Our clients are getting hit by e-commerce and technology, and we have to keep up with that too,” enthuses Daoust.
While growth for growth’s sake is not high on the agenda at Daoust Vukovich, there are a number of natural off-shoots that the firm intends to explore. “We would like to see an ADR focus develop,” says Kaufmann. “It is a natural fit to use our wealth of expertise to resolve disputes.” The firm also intends to tap into the numerous companies that are potential clients. “There are loads of landlords out there who are doing leases without lawyers,” says Vukovich. “People are constantly shocked and surprised to learn what they have signed off on,” adds Kaufmann. Finally, Daoust Vukovich is keeping a careful eye on the growing migration of US retailers and developers into Canada to ensure that the firm is well-placed to be able to service these potential new clients.
Daoust Vukovich’s long term goals, however, are not complicated. “Our goal is to supplant any other leader in our field, to continue to teach, and continue to be leaders,” says Vukovich. Daoust explains, “We are doing something we love. So it’s like being a baseball player or a sports star. If you ask a sports star, “What’s your goal?”, they just want to keep winning! That’s what we want to do.”
Lucy Macmillan is a Lexpert staff writer.
Know Your Client
An interesting string ties the previous experiences of the Daoust Vukovich partnership together. In their past lives, three out of the four name partners had spent significant periods as in-house counsel to a variety of corporate organizations, most notably large commercial retailers and real estate developers. Vukovich had served as corporate counsel for First Choice Haircutters and Trilea Centres Inc., a shopping centre company. Daoust spent fourteen years as in-house counsel to a number of companies, including ten years with Cadillac Fairview, and Banka has nearly twenty years of experience in-house, most recently as Vice-President, Legal, with Cadillac Fairview.
The partners at Daoust Vukovich have capitalized on their unique background as corporate counsel, recognizing that through these positions they have developed a “sixth sense” for business. They intuitively know how large developers and retailers make decisions and understand the qualities that these businesses value. They also understand the role that lawyers play as part of a company. “We realized that lawyers aren’t nearly as important as they think they are. You have to be brief, efficient and understand what others are trying to do,” says Daoust. This simple strategy has worked. Clients have greeted Daoust Vukovich with open arms. As Daoust notes, “We were not aware that the industry was looking for an alternative like this when we set up. But they were, and they welcomed us.”
Today, the firm advises on a blend of business and law solutions, which means that clients often see the firm as playing an in-house role. As Daoust says, “We are a safety valve. If a client can’t keep up, we can help things continue. Or in-house counsel may want to free themselves up for something. We can do the job.” Banka adds, “There is not really anything that people could come to us with that we haven’t done something similar to in the past.” Sandra Hardy, VP of Cadillac Fairview and a firm client, says it was Daoust and Banka’s experience with Cadillac that prompted the company to go with the firm. Mauro Pambianchi, Senior Vice-President of Gentra Canada Inc., another Daoust Vukovich client, also valued the firm’s past experience. “We used to use Dennis Daoust before he started the firm. We have always liked dealing with him,” Pambianchi explains.
The firm has added to their in-house experience by recruiting from in-house departments. Before joining Daoust Vukovich in 1998, associate Ken Beallor was the top in-house lawyer with firm client Tim Hortons. Thus, when the company was short-staffed earlier this year, Beallor was brought in to look after some of their files. Alfred Lane, Executive Vice-President of Development and General Counsel at Hortons, says he mostly goes through Beallor because “he knows how we think”, but he initially went to the firm because of Vukovich’s “excellent leasing ability.” As he says, “The firm deals with the larger developers on a regular basis, so in those situations, they get to the end result much faster than we could.”
Provide a Fast, Complete Service
Dennis Daoust’s main focus is with larger landlords, whilst Banka and Vukovich principally concentrate on smaller leases. “They all have a huge amount of expertise in the area,” says Pambianchi at Gentra, “They have done tons of deals.” Baker-Sigal acts primarily for tenants, such as Cineplex Corporation. Karen Hacker, VP Legal at Cineplex, retains the firm for large commercial leasing for their cinemas, which range in size from 65,000 sq. feet up. “We work mostly with Francine. We use her because she is a superb commercial leasing lawyer,” she says.
To round out their practice, the firm realized early on that it needed a commercial litigation specialist. “We could do everything when things were going well, but we were not going to be very effective if we had no dispute resolution service when things turned sour,” says Vukovich. Daoust agrees: “Commercial leasing is very esoteric. It is crucial, especially in litigation, to understand the nuances.” Daoust Vukovich went scouting and Wolfgang Kaufmann, now a partner, surfaced as a natural choice. “With the mix of commercial litigation and commercial leasing, there are lots of clients that we previously had who are now giving us more and more litigation work,” notes Kaufmann. Jonathon Fleisher, of the high-tech and corporate commercial boutique Grasset Fleisher, has no hesitation in referring general litigation to Daoust Vukovich. “Wolfgang is a very good common sense litigator,” he says.
Although a firm of just seven lawyers, three clerks and one student, Daoust Vukovich is an extremely effective unit. “We are fungible,” says Daoust, “Most of our clients feel comfortable that any one of us can deal with a matter.” Pambianchi at Gentra sees their size as a plus, “They are very responsive in terms of their turn around time, and an extremely effective use of our resources.” Hardy at Cadillac Fairview agrees: “They are responsive and timely, and are able to throw a lot of people on to a matter when you need them.” Indeed, the firm’s size gives it a considerable commercial advantage. “They are able to deliver a result at a much better price than the larger firms,” notes Hortons’ Alfred Lane.
Network
It is clear from speaking to the partners that the retail leasing world is extremely close knit. It is, in short, a small jungle. “I could rattle off the top 500 retailers and we would know them and they would know us,” says Vukovich. Being part of such a tight community continues to bring new work to the firm. “One of the best ways to develop work is that an executive from one company will move to another company. When they move to the new company, we get the work,” says Daoust. It also gives rise to the strong relationships that keep the work coming through the door. “I love the relationships, and being part of the industry,” adds Baker-Sigal. “Look around you, and you see these huge developments. These are our clients. You get a sense of being connected, and being part of something which is very important.”
Having also fostered corroborative relationships with other law firms, Daoust Vukovich is often picked by these firms to be part of a team. “They feel safe about referring work to us or working directly with us,” says Banka. Grasset Fleisher refers leasing work to Daoust Vukovich on a regular basis. Fleisher mostly deals with Vukovich. “She is a great lawyer,” he says, “and when it comes to insolvency, there is no one better.” The two firms frequently bounce ideas off each other. “I am always very impressed with their expertise in that area,” says Fleisher.
Daoust Vukovich’s obsession with relationship building goes even further, with the firm’s emphasis on a high profile in training and education. Daoust, who taught the Masters of Law in commercial leasing at Osgoode Hall, explains, “We do two things in addition to our day-to-day business. We participate in events and we participate in education.” Each member of the firm is involved in teaching, speaking, and contributing to publications. For example, Baker-Sigal is a founding member of the Toronto Commercial Real Estate Women’s Association, of which Banka is also a member—an association with over 100 members which was formed to promote education and networking across all disciplines among senior commercial women. “Our relationships come from being plugged in. We maintain a profile at all the conferences,” adds Banka. Vukovich is on the executive group of the International Council of Shopping Centers, having attended the most recent conference in Las Vegas. “You go there, wave the flag, pick up on the hot trends,” she says. All members of the firm pay a great deal of attention to the most recent industry and market developments in the U.S. As Daoust says, “You gotta know the business and what’s around the corner.”
Embrace Change
Daoust Vukovich insists on keeping abreast of new developments. “We have a religious commitment to be at the forefront,” says Daoust. The partners, with the advent of developments such as e-commerce, are under no illusions about how easy it would be to get left behind. Instead, the firm has found itself playing a leading role in an interesting phenomenon currently taking place in commercial leasing. The fact that current real estate shares are not a true reflection of the value of clients’ assets has provided a catalyst to the owners to explore new sources of technology-related revenue. Ironically, this has led to companies becoming more aware of the huge value of their holdings. Far from being left behind, the firm’s clients have discovered that they are ideally suited to take advantage of new opportunities regarding use of their properties. This has led Daoust Vukovich into new areas such as the negotiation and drafting of telecommunications license agreements, advertising/billboard agreements, and elevator monitoring agreements.
Consequently, the firm is increasingly involved in areas which are not traditionally thought of as being the domain of a commercial leasing practice, and is frequently retained by companies to assist in realizing the full potential of their assets. “Bricks and mortar are no longer the prime source of value for our clients. Commercial leasing is our main focus, but we are involved in everything: management agreements, service agreements, telephone installations, lottery kiosks, media/advertising agreements.” Today, Daoust spends a lot of time working with “specialty revenue people”, who are employed by companies to look at new ways of generating revenue, independent of rent. “This is not a static field. Our clients are getting hit by e-commerce and technology, and we have to keep up with that too,” enthuses Daoust.
While growth for growth’s sake is not high on the agenda at Daoust Vukovich, there are a number of natural off-shoots that the firm intends to explore. “We would like to see an ADR focus develop,” says Kaufmann. “It is a natural fit to use our wealth of expertise to resolve disputes.” The firm also intends to tap into the numerous companies that are potential clients. “There are loads of landlords out there who are doing leases without lawyers,” says Vukovich. “People are constantly shocked and surprised to learn what they have signed off on,” adds Kaufmann. Finally, Daoust Vukovich is keeping a careful eye on the growing migration of US retailers and developers into Canada to ensure that the firm is well-placed to be able to service these potential new clients.
Daoust Vukovich’s long term goals, however, are not complicated. “Our goal is to supplant any other leader in our field, to continue to teach, and continue to be leaders,” says Vukovich. Daoust explains, “We are doing something we love. So it’s like being a baseball player or a sports star. If you ask a sports star, “What’s your goal?”, they just want to keep winning! That’s what we want to do.”
Lucy Macmillan is a Lexpert staff writer.
Recent Articles
Lawyer(s)
J.E. Dennis Daoust
Jeanne Banka
Francine I. Baker-Sigal
Sandra J. Hardy
Kenneth A. Beallor
Karen B. Hacker
Wolfgang Kaufmann
Jonathan E. Fleisher
Firm(s)
Daoust Vukovich LLP
Cadillac Fairview Corporation Limited (The)
Oxford Properties Group
Gentra Inc./BPO Properties Ltd.
Cineplex Entertainment LP
First Choice Haircutters
Trilea Centres Inc.
Grasset Fleisher LLP
York University Osgoode Hall Law School